*** OFFICIAL *** Druff & Drexel Show Thread for 2/19/2013 - $60 Freeroll - Rich Muny/PPA Debate!

[RealTalk]

i hate some private conversations

WillieMcFML: you're a fucking idiot . what is your problem
WillieMcFML: what is wrong with a chipset for disabled vets
Me: you should buy them one if you like
Me: you are a scammer just like jasep i think
WillieMcFML: what did i ever scam?
WillieMcFML: the $25 for a t shirt is a true story
Me: prove it
WillieMcFML: swear on my grandfather's grave
Me: what ever
WillieMcFML: how the fuck can i prove it?
Me: you cant so i say bull shit
Me: bullsheet
WillieMcFML: this was from 05 or 06 and registered from an email account (aol) that i no longer use or have access to
Me: boolll sheets
Me: so cry me a river
WillieMcFML: i don't care if you believe me, do you think disabled veterans getting a chipset is a bad thing?
Me: thats your fault not theres
WillieMcFML: what is my fault?
WillieMcFML: wtf are you talking about?
Me: it think war is a crime in its self
Me: that you lost your cash
WillieMcFML: i paid $25 to the ppa on my first withdrawal from party and i was suppose to get a t shirt
WillieMcFML: i never got one, rich said he'd make up for it and i asked if they had any free PPa swag like a chipset to give it to veterans
Me: so you bring this up now??
WillieMcFML: and you see a problem in that???
WillieMcFML: i didn't lose my cash, i was cashing out a five figure sum
Me: i would say that would be a good idea if you bought a chip set for the disabled vetrens
WillieMcFML: i donated to the ppa and they said i would get a t shirt and didnt get one
WillieMcFML: its not like this is really a big deal to me, i said it for the lulz even though its 100% truth
Me: not you booolll sheestsing the ppa to buy one of them for you youcheep cunt
WillieMcFML: rich promised he would make a right and made a nice offer to give a chipset to vets
WillieMcFML: and you have a probelm with that
WillieMcFML: you are fucking retarded
WillieMcFML: i will give you no more attention limitles 2.0
WillieMcFML: bye
Me: i know you said it for the lulz and so did I
Me: i agree you are takning advantage of some ones good will to make a donation
Me: and were is your generous donation

willy is a sketchy scum bag with little to no redeeming qualities....... ask yebsite

you are a huge faggot

[Baron Von Strucker]

i hate some private conversations

WillieMcFML: you're a fucking idiot . what is your problem
WillieMcFML: what is wrong with a chipset for disabled vets
Me: you should buy them one if you like
Me: you are a scammer just like jasep i think
WillieMcFML: what did i ever scam?
WillieMcFML: the $25 for a t shirt is a true story
Me: prove it
WillieMcFML: swear on my grandfather's grave
Me: what ever
WillieMcFML: how the fuck can i prove it?
Me: you cant so i say bull shit
Me: bullsheet
WillieMcFML: this was from 05 or 06 and registered from an email account (aol) that i no longer use or have access to
Me: boolll sheets
Me: so cry me a river
WillieMcFML: i don't care if you believe me, do you think disabled veterans getting a chipset is a bad thing?
Me: thats your fault not theres
WillieMcFML: what is my fault?
WillieMcFML: wtf are you talking about?
Me: it think war is a crime in its self
Me: that you lost your cash
WillieMcFML: i paid $25 to the ppa on my first withdrawal from party and i was suppose to get a t shirt
WillieMcFML: i never got one, rich said he'd make up for it and i asked if they had any free PPa swag like a chipset to give it to veterans
Me: so you bring this up now??
WillieMcFML: and you see a problem in that???
WillieMcFML: i didn't lose my cash, i was cashing out a five figure sum
Me: i would say that would be a good idea if you bought a chip set for the disabled vetrens
WillieMcFML: i donated to the ppa and they said i would get a t shirt and didnt get one
WillieMcFML: its not like this is really a big deal to me, i said it for the lulz even though its 100% truth
Me: not you booolll sheestsing the ppa to buy one of them for you youcheep cunt
WillieMcFML: rich promised he would make a right and made a nice offer to give a chipset to vets
WillieMcFML: and you have a probelm with that
WillieMcFML: you are fucking retarded
WillieMcFML: i will give you no more attention limitles 2.0
WillieMcFML: bye
Me: i know you said it for the lulz and so did I
Me: i agree you are takning advantage of some ones good will to make a donation
Me: and were is your generous donation

willy is a sketchy scum bag with little to no redeeming qualities....... ask yebsite

you are a huge faggot

o deer a willy ball sniffer cuming to his rescue with a devastating blow....... you got me bad there. you know some real power full words there you lit my screen on fire. are you sad they stopped making twinkles?

[Baron Von Strucker]

Rich i would say to you that Druff harbours some real scummy sketchy people on this site they always show up when generous people are around to tale advantage and steel money.

i could understand if you don't post here

[WillieMcFML]

Rich i would say to you that Druff harbours some real scummy sketchy people on this site they always show up when generous people are around to tale advantage and steel money.

i could understand if you don't post here

the free chipset for disabled vets long-con

you sir are a fucking genius, you caught me

[Baron Von Strucker]

Rich i would say to you that Druff harbours some real scummy sketchy people on this site they always show up when generous people are around to tale advantage and steel money.

i could understand if you don't post here

the free chipset for disabled vets long-con

you sir are a fucking genius

you think when you do this kind of shit to guilt some one to do this is funny? intelligent? smart ass you are nothing but a shit stain who is to stupid to be successful at any kind of scam because you are dum........ again ask yebsite or i will again post your admission of stupidity you wrote your self if you like. fucking retard.

you want the disabled vets to have a chip set buy them one your fucking self you cheep cunt!

[Dan Druff]

Baron, please stop terribling up this thread.

[Baron Von Strucker]

Baron, please stop terribling up this thread.

new word??

thred was terrible d when willy declared that the ppa owed him $25 that he cant prove and guilting your guest to make a donation to yebsites victim's name. This is you allowing this to happen is such a lame inside joke.... you insult Rich Muny by not stopping this shit.

get your head out of your ass and try to do something that isn't in your best intrest you are a very selfish person.

[Dan Druff]

Baron, please stop terribling up this thread.

new word??

thred was terrible d when willy declared that the ppa owed him $25 that he cant prove and guilting your guest to make a donation to yebsites victim name. This is you allowing this to happen is such a lame inside joke.... you insult Rich Muny by not stopping this shit.

get your head out of your ass and try to do something that isn't in your best intrest you are a very selfish person.

Even though Willie is very aware that his lack of PPA T-shirt was not the PPA's fault (but rather Party Poker's fault from 2006), Rich agreed on-air to get him one.

Willie did not do anything wrong in this thread, and I doubt Rich was offended by anything he wrote.

The only one making this thread terrible right now is you.

[vegas1369]

Druff, just pretend Baron is a Jsearles dupe and ban him as well.

I doubt anyone would care, in fact it would probably be met with high praise.

[tamiller866]

Todd,

The real reasons Rich 'won' the debate are:

A) The valid criticisms you made were mostly on issues no one cares about; whether Rich acts like a Dick on a message board or if the PPA did enough to warn players about UB, their mission is to get poker legalized so any criticism beyond that mission will fall on deaf ears.

B) They've been wildly successful in their mission, from getting intranet poker legalized in NV (that was almost entirely a PPA/PokerStars effort), convincing a NY judge to rule poker to be a game in which results are effected too much by skill to violate the IGBA, to just recently getting Governor Christie to pledge to sign a bill that uses the same legal fiction he objected to in vetoing the prior bill - but removes the bad actor clause for the PokerStars Player Alliance.

C) Rich sincerely believes that the PPA strategies have been instrumental in their success, so when he scoffs at criticism and replies to it with a non-answer speech about the PPA's success, it's not because he's hiding anything, he truly believes that his body of work speaks for itself.

Proper criticism of the PPA would be to point out that all their success has been completely in spite of themselves, they run around Washington DC trying to shoot holes in their feet, but the bullets ricochet off the ground and strike inadvertent political targets.

In short, the PPA has been remarkably lucky, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, and following the adage of the harder one works, the luckier they get - there is no reason to expect they will stop running good as no one works harder than Rich Muny and John Pappas by all accounts.

The fact is they weren't even trying to actually get intranet poker in NV, they wanted to get the regulatory structure set up to rig the Federal bill proposal in favor of the commercial gaming industry, so that once the bill passed NV would become the US version of IOM.

So it was completely accidental that now with the failure of their real effort, NV is now positioned to be first to launch the State-by-State effort to form compacts, but again, it's better to be lucky than good.

Their legal argument that the IGBA doesn't apply to games with an element of skill is completely baseless, the purpose of the list of examples targeted by the IGBA wasn't to provide a definition, it was to show congress that they were only targeting gambling that would already be illegal under some other federal statute if there were an interstate nexus - prior to the internet it wasn't possible to play card games interstate.

But again, it's better to be lucky than good, and they caught the perfect storm of the right case in front of the right judge at the right time, regardless of whether that ruling is overturned, politically it went a long way to differentiate poker from other gambling.

In Jersey, Governor Christie was basically blackmailed into agreeing to sign the same bill he had previously vetoed, Atlantic City is on the verge of becoming a ghost town, and Nevada is on it's way to pulling off another PASPA (sports betting) where they get themselves grandfathered and the rest of the State's are excluded - the PPA runs white hot.

The truth is that if they had combined their good fortune derived from hard work with a practical strategy back in 2006, poker would likely be licensed and regulated in several States by now, but that practical Strategy would have involved teaming up with State lotteries rather than the B&M casino industry - and the State lotteries were never going to let FTP/PokerStars (PPA funding) operate their lottery poker - making the practical rather impractical from their perspective.

So while you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has been more critical of the PPA that I have - I mean, every decision they make is logically flawed - I really can't argue with their results, they were assigned an impossible mission (federal poker legislation) and stumbled into a position where States are now tripping over each other to catch up to Nevada in a State-by-State march they were actually trying to prevent from happening.

Watching the PPA do politics is like watching Phil Helmuth do poker, you know he isn't making the correct decisions, but the guy just wants it so bad that some higher power seems to guide his path to another bracelet.

[Deal]

Welcome to PFA, Rich, and thank you again for spending 3 hours of your time on the show.

I am also glad to see that you are making Willie's 7-years-running t-shirt dreams come true.

Regarding UB, I never doubted that Senator D'Amato actually issued a press release regarding the UB scandal, but my points about the matter were as follows:

1) The press release was not really warning people to stay away from UB/AP, but rather urging the companies and Kahnawake to display transparency in their investigations. The rest of the press release went on to relate the situation to the need for regulated online poker in the US. I agreed with all of D'Amato's points in the press release, but this by itself did not serve as a proper warning to the PPA membership regarding these companies. It was more of a statement that we needed regulated online poker because of scandals like this.

2) More importantly, it is rather clear that most of the PPA's membership of 1,000,000 players did not see this. To be honest, there is only one way to make sure you reach everyone in an online group, and that's via e-mail. You cannot count on them to visit your website or scour the web for press releases from Senator D'Amato. This is why so few people remember the PPA making any statement about UB at all.

Simply put, had the PPA drafted a simple letter urging its entire membership to stay away from UB, it would have been extremely effective, and it wouldn't have cost the organization any money or any kind of appreciable time. It would have been an effortless gesture that would have resulted in a lot of positive repercussions, in both 2008 and the future.

That was the point I was attempting to raise regarding the UB issue. I never felt that the PPA needed to take an active role in investigating UB, but rather should have utilized its giant membership base and respect within the community to issue a clearly-worded, concise warning via e-mail.

Regardless, I still felt the debate was an interesting and valuable segment for PFA Radio, and I'm glad you were able to join us on Tuesday night.

Druff please have a look at your calendar. It's not 2007 or 2008 anymore. If this is your main argument of why the PPA is irrelevant then you have lost the argument. There is no need to respond or bring up UB with respect to the PPA ever again. It is too bad that you didn't spend some time discussing their current and future strategies versus trying to analyze the past. That said, I have been critical of your part in this and want to add that I thought you did an entertaining interview and enjoyed listening.

[Rollo Tomasi]

Baron, please stop terribling up this thread.

new word??

thred was terrible d when willy declared that the ppa owed him $25 that he cant prove and guilting your guest to make a donation to yebsites victim's name. This is you allowing this to happen is such a lame inside joke.... you insult Rich Muny by not stopping this shit.

get your head out of your ass and try to do something that isn't in your best intrest you are a very selfish person.

[fluffer]

druff suffering from UB tourettes

[haleylh]

Druff, you didn't do your research very well and it showed. That statement was always out there. I do not believe the PPA mailed that out to its complete membership base, but obviously, they did send it out to their media list, and it did make the news.

Now, I remember receiving that statement back in '08 and thinking how carefully parsed it was. There was a condemnation of past cheating, but there was no "looking forward" condemnation toward rooms such as AP or UB. At the time the statement was made, it was already pretty well known that the PPA was receiving major contributions from Stars and Tilt, and I also remember thinking that it was a case of the PPA needing to say something, but not wanting to piss off AP/UB too thoroughly in case the PPA could find a way to extract a few bucks from them.

There was also the call to the Kahnawake Gaming Commission to be open and transparent. A good joke, that was. The KGC was already in the process of preparing their whitewash report -- in which the blame was agreed to be shouldered by Russ Hamilton and by Russ only -- while the KGC sent a copy of it to the brother-in-law of one of the guys on the KGC council. That brother-in-law, according to what I've been told (and I believe it) worked as a cop on the Kahnawake tribal force, which then allowed the KGC to claim that they had sent their investigative findings on to the "appropriate authorities".

I remember rolling my eyes reading that part of the statement, but including it just because I thought it was so laughable. Maybe the PPA did not understand the true nature of the KGC back then, but with the depth of their industry connections, they certainly should have. I favored running the KGC statements over the UB and AP ones back then because I knew that the AP and UB statements were CERTAIN lies, while the KGC statements were only HIGHLY PROBABLE lies. Lesser of two evils. It didn't mean I had any faith in the KGC or expectation that they would act properly, and they certainly fulfilled my lack of expectations.

With that back story told, Rich and the PPA should not take my publishing of the PPA release as either an approval or disapproval of their stance back then. Rather, the fact that they chose to make a statement at all was the news, and that's why it was reported, just as I've utterly ignored several of their "cheerleader" press releases because those statements were a waste of the electrons used to transmit them. The PPA has been mighty unhappy with me in recent weeks and months, but the root cause of that is because I'm an independent news reporter and writer, not a pro-PPA cheerleader. When the PPA is involved in real news stories -- good or bad -- then I write about it.

P.S.: There is no way I want to listen to Druff and Rich talk for three hours. Is there anything in that tape that I really, really, really need to listen to? :-)

[DRK Star]

P.S.: There is no way I want to listen to Druff and Rich talk for three hours. Is there anything in that tape that I really, really, really need to listen to? :-)

[Baron Von Strucker]

Druff, just pretend Baron is a Jsearles dupe and ban him as well.

I doubt anyone would care, in fact it would probably be met with high praise.

not surprised this coming from you...... a person who would ban some one based on there opinion not a offence.

all you seem to do is whine about jserless and 408 mike owing you a laughable amount of money that you are to stupid to accept you are NOT GOING TO GET PAID and when making stupid wagers on stupid things any normal thinking person would lol internet...... when not paid for the bet.
In jserless case it became a federal crime? Druff didn't and shouldn't have banned him for this as it was a stupid uncollectable bet. trying to use PFA as your collection agency is at a scumbag level.
hows the lol $700 cut healing up...... pussy, lol i would have fixed that with a butterfly bandage and a drop of super glue,
there is nothing wrong with jserless and enjoyed some of his posts.

if anything you should be baned for being a predictable boring, whining baby, who is nothing more than a wannabe internet bully.

[Crowe Diddly]

There is no way I want to listen to Druff and Rich talk for three hours. Is there anything in that tape that I really, really, really need to listen to? :-)

I don't believe there was any news broken during the interview.

Fun interview for a while, but IMO, 3 hours is way longer than your audience can comfortably listen to. Next time something like this comes up, try to set up some sort of break after an hour or 2, be it a song, some phone calls, a lighter topic for a bit... Something to switch it up, kill the tension for a minute, and give listeners something different for a short time, maybe even a phone call or 2, then back to the interview.

[Baron Von Strucker]

new word??

thred was terrible d when willy declared that the ppa owed him $25 that he cant prove and guilting your guest to make a donation to yebsites victim name. This is you allowing this to happen is such a lame inside joke.... you insult Rich Muny by not stopping this shit.

get your head out of your ass and try to do something that isn't in your best intrest you are a very selfish person.

Even though Willie is very aware that his lack of PPA T-shirt was not the PPA's fault (but rather Party Poker's fault from 2006), Rich agreed on-air to get him one.

Willie did not do anything wrong in this thread, and I doubt Rich was offended by anything he wrote.

The only one making this thread terrible right now is you.

its funny to see you in this light trying to support a known scammer and admitted criminal.
willie has no proof of this deposit and if he did should have dealt with it a very long time ago ON HIS OWNE. but instead he would sit on his fat ass and bully one of your guests to make a donation that he him self would never do, i am sure he would not wast his time to even do the leg work it might take to find a address or walk it to the post office.
you also seem to keep these scum bag types very close to you, which makes me judge your character in a unsavoury light.

if you like i will post a list of the scumbags you have befriended and even vouched for that turned out to be the scum of the earth and under your supervision stole money from your loyal seemingly honest members. i think a long list of your scamming buddies is in order. top billing going to your buddy jasep and peter dc.

[Deal]

P.S.: There is no way I want to listen to Druff and Rich talk for three hours. Is there anything in that tape that I really, really, really need to listen to? :-)

Rich did make mention of the seemingly awkward relationship between you and the PPA. It didn't make much sense and he tried to downplay it after mentioning it. That would be the one sound bite you might get a laugh from. Unfortunately I just can't remember where it was and it really wasn't significant in any way.

[GrenadaRoger]

Todd,

The real reasons Rich 'won' the debate are:

A) The valid criticisms you made were mostly on issues no one cares about; whether Rich acts like a Dick on a message board or if the PPA did enough to warn players about UB, their mission is to get poker legalized so any criticism beyond that mission will fall on deaf ears.

B) They've been wildly successful in their mission, from getting intranet poker legalized in NV (that was almost entirely a PPA/PokerStars effort), convincing a NY judge to rule poker to be a game in which results are effected too much by skill to violate the IGBA, to just recently getting Governor Christie to pledge to sign a bill that uses the same legal fiction he objected to in vetoing the prior bill - but removes the bad actor clause for the PokerStars Player Alliance.

C) Rich sincerely believes that the PPA strategies have been instrumental in their success, so when he scoffs at criticism and replies to it with a non-answer speech about the PPA's success, it's not because he's hiding anything, he truly believes that his body of work speaks for itself.

Proper criticism of the PPA would be to point out that all their success has been completely in spite of themselves, they run around Washington DC trying to shoot holes in their feet, but the bullets ricochet off the ground and strike inadvertent political targets.

In short, the PPA has been remarkably lucky, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, and following the adage of the harder one works, the luckier they get - there is no reason to expect they will stop running good as no one works harder than Rich Muny and John Pappas by all accounts.

The fact is they weren't even trying to actually get intranet poker in NV, they wanted to get the regulatory structure set up to rig the Federal bill proposal in favor of the commercial gaming industry, so that once the bill passed NV would become the US version of IOM.

So it was completely accidental that now with the failure of their real effort, NV is now positioned to be first to launch the State-by-State effort to form compacts, but again, it's better to be lucky than good.

Their legal argument that the IGBA doesn't apply to games with an element of skill is completely baseless, the purpose of the list of examples targeted by the IGBA wasn't to provide a definition, it was to show congress that they were only targeting gambling that would already be illegal under some other federal statute if there were an interstate nexus - prior to the internet it wasn't possible to play card games interstate.

But again, it's better to be lucky than good, and they caught the perfect storm of the right case in front of the right judge at the right time, regardless of whether that ruling is overturned, politically it went a long way to differentiate poker from other gambling.

In Jersey, Governor Christie was basically blackmailed into agreeing to sign the same bill he had previously vetoed, Atlantic City is on the verge of becoming a ghost town, and Nevada is on it's way to pulling off another PASPA (sports betting) where they get themselves grandfathered and the rest of the State's are excluded - the PPA runs white hot.

The truth is that if they had combined their good fortune derived from hard work with a practical strategy back in 2006, poker would likely be licensed and regulated in several States by now, but that practical Strategy would have involved teaming up with State lotteries rather than the B&M casino industry - and the State lotteries were never going to let FTP/PokerStars (PPA funding) operate their lottery poker - making the practical rather impractical from their perspective.

So while you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has been more critical of the PPA that I have - I mean, every decision they make is logically flawed - I really can't argue with their results, they were assigned an impossible mission (federal poker legislation) and stumbled into a position where States are now tripping over each other to catch up to Nevada in a State-by-State march they were actually trying to prevent from happening.

Watching the PPA do politics is like watching Phil Helmuth do poker, you know he isn't making the correct decisions, but the guy just wants it so bad that some higher power seems to guide his path to another bracelet.

Wildly successful? Getting 1 state to approve online poker, a governor to modify a pro-online bill and 1 judge to rule poker is a skill game? Those are small wins

I don't think that comes anywhere near success considering their plea for contributions is to get online poker legalized nationwide...

I see the PPA as wanting to stretch out the legalization process because once online poker is legal, no more PPA