PROJEKT:SEP **SCAM** (Rolled: A Jasep Saga)

[Dan Druff]

Brandon told me that you are a good guy and were simply defending a friend you believed in, so I was hoping you would at least come back, realize you were wrong, and apologize.

Instead, you're still on the attack.

I don't understand it.

At this point, do you actually believe that the people questioning this BAP were "trolling"?

They had legitimate questions -- and all of their suspicions turned out to be correct.

They were using common sense and trying to bring up very serious issues they noticed with this whole thing.

This included guys typically known for trolling (Anal Hershiser) and ones not known for it (Cokehead, Bustmeanut, donkdowndonedied, SetofKs, and many others).

Even though most of these people didn't have any inside information, they brought the following very valid points:

- Where are Jasep's poker results? He claims to have been a pro since the late '90s, yet nobody can point to any evidence of success.

- How can you just take his word for it when he reports wins and losses, since there is no way to verify it? This is especially true because he has admitted that he is broke going into this.

- Why did Jasep not pay out on Thursday, January 10th as promised, but instead played a "makeup" session and claimed to have lost?

- How can you trust a guy with a recent conviction for identity theft against the mother of his own child?

The above is NOT TROLLING. I wouldn't have allowed people to ruin the thread with insults about Jasep's looks, his exploits with PlentyOfFish women, or anything else irrelevant to the BAP. The above questions were all very relevant to the BAP, and people like you not only ignored them, but viciously attacked me for allowing their discussion.

If it were up to you, the discussion of this would have been shut down, and Jasep would still be running PROJEKT:SEP, double-selling shares and continuing to scam everyone.

Furthermore, you call me a hypocrite for applauding PLOL for cashing out $1100 from Stars that he wasn't entitled to. This is despite the fact that I have presented clear evidence that Stars not only stole, but actually stole from PLOL personally. You may not agree with me on this point, and that's fine. However, this just makes our opinions different as to when "stealing" is justified. I would be a hypocrite if I made a lot of noise against scammers, but then scammed myself. I would be a hypocrite if I made a lot of noise about thieves, but then conspired to cover up thefts committed by my friends. I have done neither of these things. There is a reason that nearly the entire forum trusts me to hold their money, and that's because they know that I am a straightforward and honest person.

But let's get back to this situation.

Go ahead and point me to the "trolling" in this thread that shouldn't have been allowed. I need a good laugh.

Call me crazy but shouldnt you have thought of the 2 bolded parts before you let him run a bap on your site?

You're not crazy.

I'm not going to let anyone run unverifiable BAPs here anymore, and I am going to carefully review ALL DETAILS of the BAP before allowing it.

The problem here was that Jasep asked, "Can I run a BAP?", I said yes, and by the time I realized the details of it, it was already in progress, and given his then-good reputation, I let it stand.

Again, we are all adults here, and I had the same information as the rest of you at the time the BAP was started. While I want to prevent scams on this site, I can't act as everyone's financial guardian and carefully scrutinize every time money changes hands between adults.

[chinamaniac]

Brandon told me that you are a good guy and were simply defending a friend you believed in, so I was hoping you would at least come back, realize you were wrong, and apologize.

Instead, you're still on the attack.

I don't understand it.

At this point, do you actually believe that the people questioning this BAP were "trolling"?

They had legitimate questions -- and all of their suspicions turned out to be correct.

They were using common sense and trying to bring up very serious issues they noticed with this whole thing.

This included guys typically known for trolling (Anal Hershiser) and ones not known for it (Cokehead, Bustmeanut, donkdowndonedied, SetofKs, and many others).

Even though most of these people didn't have any inside information, they brought the following very valid points:

- Where are Jasep's poker results? He claims to have been a pro since the late '90s, yet nobody can point to any evidence of success.

- How can you just take his word for it when he reports wins and losses, since there is no way to verify it? This is especially true because he has admitted that he is broke going into this.

- Why did Jasep not pay out on Thursday, January 10th as promised, but instead played a "makeup" session and claimed to have lost?

- How can you trust a guy with a recent conviction for identity theft against the mother of his own child?

The above is NOT TROLLING. I wouldn't have allowed people to ruin the thread with insults about Jasep's looks, his exploits with PlentyOfFish women, or anything else irrelevant to the BAP. The above questions were all very relevant to the BAP, and people like you not only ignored them, but viciously attacked me for allowing their discussion.

If it were up to you, the discussion of this would have been shut down, and Jasep would still be running PROJEKT:SEP, double-selling shares and continuing to scam everyone.

Furthermore, you call me a hypocrite for applauding PLOL for cashing out $1100 from Stars that he wasn't entitled to. This is despite the fact that I have presented clear evidence that Stars not only stole, but actually stole from PLOL personally. You may not agree with me on this point, and that's fine. However, this just makes our opinions different as to when "stealing" is justified. I would be a hypocrite if I made a lot of noise against scammers, but then scammed myself. I would be a hypocrite if I made a lot of noise about thieves, but then conspired to cover up thefts committed by my friends. I have done neither of these things. There is a reason that nearly the entire forum trusts me to hold their money, and that's because they know that I am a straightforward and honest person.

But let's get back to this situation.

Go ahead and point me to the "trolling" in this thread that shouldn't have been allowed. I need a good laugh.

Call me crazy but shouldnt you have thought of the 2 bolded parts before you let him run a bap on your site?

It's not his job or anyone else's . Should he monitor every bet people make here too? People need to research there own stuff. Jasep would qualify to put a bap on any online forum. Again not druffs place. People need to be smarter

[ShadyJ]

There isn't any reason why anybody needs to apologize to you. You had inside info. Info no regular posters had. If anything you need to apologize to Hockey guy and others.

Nobody "needs" to apologize to me. I am not going to ban anyone for the lack of an apology. You are allowed to post on this forum even if you don't like me.

However, I think apologizing is the right thing to do.

They were angry that I was ALLOWING others (people with NO INSIDE INFO) to bring up common-sense concerns regarding this BAP.

It's not like they were trashing me for bringing up unlikely-to-be-true accusations against Jasep, when in reality I knew the real story the whole time.

Here they were angry at me for ALLOWING others to discuss it.

They wanted me to shut down any questioning of Jasep.

That was already a ridiculous request, but uber-ridiculous when viewed in hindsight.

For anyone to still complain about "trolling of Jasep" in this thread is laughable.

What you did wasnt wrong it just felt wrong to some people who were worried about their money at the time. Im not sure why your making this into a im right your wrong situation. You have to remember Todd is God so God doesnt need to ask for apoligies to feel better about it. God just knows deep down he was right and thats all that matters.

[Dan Druff]

BTW, in case anyone is wondering, I learned of the identity theft conviction from SixToedPete's blog. By that point, it was deep into the BAP and I'm sure all of the money was gone.

[sonatine]

At some point, people are going to have to accept that Jasep probably isnt some calculating monster, just an average, every day dirtbag who tried to get slick and got in way the fuck over his head.

You are right probably 98% of the time. This is part of the 2%. The guy stole from sick kids. I mean, he got into that charity thing with the specific intention of stealing from sick kids. Then he mentions to China he wants to do an MS one too? If that isn't a calculating monster, I don't know what is. It's not like these were kids who just had a broken leg, or wanted to go to Disneyland. These kids have severe disabilities. Maybe it just upsets people who have kids more than people who don't.

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

[ShadyJ]

Call me crazy but shouldnt you have thought of the 2 bolded parts before you let him run a bap on your site?

You're not crazy.

I'm not going to let anyone run unverifiable BAPs here anymore, and I am going to carefully review ALL DETAILS of the BAP before allowing it.

The problem here was that Jasep asked, "Can I run a BAP?", I said yes, and by the time I realized the details of it, it was already in progress, and given his then-good reputation, I let it stand.

Again, we are all adults here, and I had the same information as the rest of you at the time the BAP was started. While I want to prevent scams on this site, I can't act as everyone's financial guardian and carefully scrutinize every time money changes hands between adults.

Thats fair everyone can learn from this.

[ShadyJ]

You are right probably 98% of the time. This is part of the 2%. The guy stole from sick kids. I mean, he got into that charity thing with the specific intention of stealing from sick kids. Then he mentions to China he wants to do an MS one too? If that isn't a calculating monster, I don't know what is. It's not like these were kids who just had a broken leg, or wanted to go to Disneyland. These kids have severe disabilities. Maybe it just upsets people who have kids more than people who don't.

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

Hes like in his 40s I think, so hes been doing this shit his whole life. Pyschoanalize him if you want, but the fact is he steals peoples money whether he intended to or not really doesnt matter except for the intelluctuals that think they can diagnose him. WHO THE FUCK CARES

Im obviously not one of the intellectuals since I cant even spell it.

[Dan Druff]

By the way, I sent some money to Jasep (in September, I believe) on behalf of others for the 22Q foundation.

It is hard to figure out which of these were for 22Q and which were just personal payments from me to Jasep (such as winning freerolls, forwarding other people's payments for debts they had with him, etc).

I will try to reconstruct this soon.

[Dan Druff]

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

Hes like in his 40s I think, so hes been doing this shit his whole life. Pyschoanalize him if you want, but the fact is he steals peoples money whether he intended to or not really doesnt matter except for the intelluctuals that think they can diagnose him. WHO THE FUCK CARES

Im obviously not one of the intellectuals since I cant even spell it.

He's 32 or 33.

[sonatine]

You are right probably 98% of the time. This is part of the 2%. The guy stole from sick kids. I mean, he got into that charity thing with the specific intention of stealing from sick kids. Then he mentions to China he wants to do an MS one too? If that isn't a calculating monster, I don't know what is. It's not like these were kids who just had a broken leg, or wanted to go to Disneyland. These kids have severe disabilities. Maybe it just upsets people who have kids more than people who don't.

Exactly. He went from your typical scumbag to a total piece of shit. There is NO way the rolling of sick kids wasn't a calculated move. He is worse than PeterDC imo. Even scumbag prisoners' hate other prisoners that fuck with children. It is the lowest of the low.

Ultimately my point may be that the bar for that type of depravity is lower than a lot of people want to pretend it is, and a catalyst for it is addiction, which Jasep demurely bragged about in dozens of posts detailing his various foibles and 'misfortunes'.

[sonatine]

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

Hes like in his 40s I think, so hes been doing this shit his whole life. Pyschoanalize him if you want, but the fact is he steals peoples money whether he intended to or not really doesnt matter except for the intelluctuals that think they can diagnose him. WHO THE FUCK CARES

Im obviously not one of the intellectuals since I cant even spell it.

Id say the mad guy cares.

[ShadyJ]

BTW, in case anyone is wondering, I learned of the identity theft conviction from SixToedPete's blog. By that point, it was deep into the BAP and I'm sure all of the money was gone.

I dont think anyones blaming you for allowing the BAP, but there just should have been some things done differently.

[ShadyJ]

Hes like in his 40s I think, so hes been doing this shit his whole life. Pyschoanalize him if you want, but the fact is he steals peoples money whether he intended to or not really doesnt matter except for the intelluctuals that think they can diagnose him. WHO THE FUCK CARES

Im obviously not one of the intellectuals since I cant even spell it.

He's 32 or 33.

Really? He looks 10 years older then me and Im 37

[donkdowndonedied]

You are right probably 98% of the time. This is part of the 2%. The guy stole from sick kids. I mean, he got into that charity thing with the specific intention of stealing from sick kids. Then he mentions to China he wants to do an MS one too? If that isn't a calculating monster, I don't know what is. It's not like these were kids who just had a broken leg, or wanted to go to Disneyland. These kids have severe disabilities. Maybe it just upsets people who have kids more than people who don't.

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

Those of us who say he is likely a sociopath aren't saying he isn't a gambling addict.



It isn't curious nor bizarre. There are a ton of gambling addicts around, that almost goes without saying.

edit - hey where is my facepalm ?

[Pooh]

There isn't any reason why anybody needs to apologize to you. You had inside info. Info no regular posters had. If anything you need to apologize to Hockey guy and others.

Nobody "needs" to apologize to me. I am not going to ban anyone for the lack of an apology. You are allowed to post on this forum even if you don't like me.

However, I think apologizing is the right thing to do.

They were angry that I was ALLOWING others (people with NO INSIDE INFO) to bring up common-sense concerns regarding this BAP.

It's not like they were trashing me for bringing up unlikely-to-be-true accusations against Jasep, when in reality I knew the real story the whole time.

Here they were angry at me for ALLOWING others to discuss it.

They wanted me to shut down any questioning of Jasep.

That was already a ridiculous request, but uber-ridiculous when viewed in hindsight.

For anyone to still complain about "trolling of Jasep" in this thread is laughable.

Well anybody should be able to criticize anybody's BAP including your own WSOP ones (and I'm sure you'd agree). However, since you knew all along this one had a high likelihood of being bogus it should have been nipped in the bud at an extremely early stage. I mean, when some dropped out he oversold causing people to lose even more money. You definitely knew at this point yet still kept quiet. If Drex or China were afraid of being ridiculed ala Anal then they could have pm'd you the details and you could have ended this shit once and for all. I personally don't dislike you at all. This place is tight knit and fun for the most part. Things could have been handled better all around. Maybe from now on it should just be buyer beware.

[ShadyJ]

The dead pool is kinda been skipped over. Was he holding the $?

He hit me up for the $ but luckily for me by the time I read it it was to late.

[Anal_Hershiser]

You are right probably 98% of the time. This is part of the 2%. The guy stole from sick kids. I mean, he got into that charity thing with the specific intention of stealing from sick kids. Then he mentions to China he wants to do an MS one too? If that isn't a calculating monster, I don't know what is. It's not like these were kids who just had a broken leg, or wanted to go to Disneyland. These kids have severe disabilities. Maybe it just upsets people who have kids more than people who don't.

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

I fully understand your point, and would revise my statement that you are wrong to we just have differing views/opinions. Lots of people have gambling addictions, not many of them steal from a children's charity or lifelong friends. If your view is that he is just a good guy who has a gambling addiction, that is not a view I share. Nor do I think many other people see it that way. The fact that he STILL has not come clean or admitted any wrongdoing, to me, speaks volumes about what kind of a guy he truly is. A good guy with a gambling addiction would have come forward by now and said "I really fucked up. How can I make this right?" We will never hear from him again. Hardly the actions of a good guy who ended up in a bad spot.

[sonatine]

Also ShadyJ's 1000th post was to me.

*blush*

Honestly I do get what youre trying to say, Im just pointing out that people who hand their money to addicts might do well to learn that maybe thats a bad investment policy, no matter how much they appreciate that addict distracting them from their own problems.

[Lurker1998]

You are right probably 98% of the time. This is part of the 2%. The guy stole from sick kids. I mean, he got into that charity thing with the specific intention of stealing from sick kids. Then he mentions to China he wants to do an MS one too? If that isn't a calculating monster, I don't know what is. It's not like these were kids who just had a broken leg, or wanted to go to Disneyland. These kids have severe disabilities. Maybe it just upsets people who have kids more than people who don't.

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

Very good points, sir. I was in the center of arguments where many people wanted to explain away Peter Falcone's crimes by asserting he was an out of control gambling addict. I argued strenuously that he is not a gambling addict -- he did everything he did with specific intent, not out of control. I do not know enough about this Jasep character to be able to speak, but it is interesting to me that people were willing to cut slack to a guy who is clearly much worse (Peter Falcone), than this Jasep character. I cannot speak authoritatively on the matter, but your points above seem quite cogent to me.

[sonatine]

Without having a more granular portrait of him to examine, Id call him an addict. Addicts do addict things.

The most likely narrative for me is that hes out of control. Thats the opposite of calculating. If he was blowing this money on crack, I think we would be a lot less anxious to paint him as a master criminal.

And isnt it curious that on a poker forum, almost no one wants to frame Jasep's criminality in the context of gambling addiction.

How curious, how bizarre.

I fully understand your point, and would revise my statement that you are wrong to we just have differing views/opinions. Lots of people have gambling addictions, not many of them steal from a children's charity or lifelong friends. If your view is that he is just a good guy who has a gambling addiction, that is not a view I share. Nor do I think many other people see it that way. The fact that he STILL has not come clean or admitted any wrongdoing, to me, speaks volumes about what kind of a guy truly is. A good guy with a gambling addiction would have come forward by now and said "I really fucked up. How can I make this right." We will never hear from him again. Hardly the actions of a good guy who ended up in a bad spot.

These are 100% valid points, and FWIW I think he will come back and issue a mea culpa at some point. Time will tell, of course.