Direction of the forum -- how should I handle free speech in the 2020s?

[SrslySirius]

also is this true??

[sonatine]

druff the thing i dont get is if you have absolutely no problem with the base philosophies and politics that foment the hate speech here, why bother making a thread about censoring it?

the only plausible explanation is that its an attempt to white wash your allegiance with those politics.

for about 5 minutes before trump got elected you were pearl clutching with the rest of us about how awful he was and then when the unwashed masses started cashing in on their shiny new poetic license to be The Worst People Ever you heel turned into trump's bulletproof jockstrap made flesh every time anyone tried to put a spotlight on how toxic things were getting.

[Dan Druff]

also is this true??

Compared to your Negreanu videos, this was getting off really easy

[Dan Druff]

You and SrslySirius seem to believe that people are outraged by right-wing activism here. That's not at all what I've experienced, and I've never received a single complaint about that, aside from you and a few other existing active members.

I don't see how you could possibly interpret my post this way in good faith. I said nothing about political ideology. I specifically pointed out the bigotry and toxic culture.

Believe it or not there are places on the internet where you can talk about conservative politics without it devolving into cancerous fanaticism

I was more aiming that at sonatine, but also at your reference to it being "Stormfront" here.

What specifically is so bad here, aside from the aforementioned offensive language?

[dwai]

druff the thing i dont get is if you have absolutely no problem with the base philosophies and politics that foment the hate speech here, why bother making a thread about censoring it?

the only plausible explanation is that its an attempt to white wash your allegiance with those politics.

for about 5 minutes before trump got elected you were pearl clutching with the rest of us about how awful he was and then when the unwashed masses started cashing in on their shiny new poetic license to be The Worst People Ever you heel turned into trump's bulletproof jockstrap made flesh every time anyone tried to put a spotlight on how toxic things were getting.

having different opinions than you is not toxic you fat piece of shit

[SrslySirius]

I don't see how you could possibly interpret my post this way in good faith. I said nothing about political ideology. I specifically pointed out the bigotry and toxic culture.

Believe it or not there are places on the internet where you can talk about conservative politics without it devolving into cancerous fanaticism

I was more aiming that at sonatine, but also at your reference to it being "Stormfront" here.

What specifically is so bad here, aside from the aforementioned offensive language?

"Stormfront is a white nationalist,[3] white supremacist,[4] antisemitic, Holocaust-denialist,[5][6][7] and neo-Nazi[8] Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site.[9] In addition to its promotion of Holocaust denial, Stormfront has increasingly become active in the propagation of Islamophobia."

I'm confused, are you saying that the above is in line with conservative values, so long as it doesn't use the naughty words?

[Bootsy Collins]

The issue that I am seeing is that the political fighting between the usual suspects is spilling into other threads where it doesn't belong. This is where the site becomes unreadable. Just take a look at the get well Flipper Fair thread.

[limitles]

Restricting hate language is not going to change the person who chooses to use it.
It will remind them that this is an open public forum and like other places of gathering
it's not acceptable. You don't get away with it in stores for example.

Hate speech is easy. Don't let it be

[RealTalk]

Regardless of the outcome of the poll, I have confidence in druff to make the wrong decision.

[tigerpiper]

druffs brand of right wing cryptofascism openly embraces the denigration of intellectualism under the guise of 'common sense', a phrase which has been perversely twisted to refer to the most exploitable instincts of the working class.

so druff would never say its 'common sense' to drag fauci out of his bed and murder him on facebook live, but druff enthusiastically provides (and participates in) an echo chamber for the sort of bad faith campaigns that decry human rights as 'SJW agendas', for example.

druff is smart enough to not condone the sorts of toxic lunacy that have become the mainstream status quo in street level conservatism, because unlike most proletariat trump conservatives he has a lot to lose.

so this site remains a convenient watering hole for the dumbest people we went to high school with, and banning hate speech isnt going to do anything but give druff ammo to rebuke the occasional dismissive comments from c level poker celebrities recoiling in horror from this sites content.

additionally, "stormfront-lite" plays.

This is a really dumb take.

You're basically accusing me of being a horrible alt-right fascist, but stated that I'm smart enough to realize that openly expressing such views would be problematic in my real life. Therefore, you believe I stay quiet and let the anonymous alt-right trolls do the work for me.

That's absolutely false. My views are exactly as I express them out here. There isn't a hidden part. I'm not secretly rooting for the worst element of the party, which you have simplistically cast as representative of the entire right wing base.

You and SrslySirius seem to believe that people are outraged by right-wing activism here. That's not at all what I've experienced, and I've never received a single complaint about that, aside from you and a few other existing active members.

The complaints are very clearly about my allowance of posts containing blatantly racist and homophobic content. Even on 2+2, when I run into PFA bashers, they point to the bigoted language in some posts/threads here, but never to the brand of political thought being expressed.

There's no shortage of left-wing thought here. If anything, PFA actually has good diversity of political opinion. I also don't force my own political beliefs upon others here. No left-wing speech is censored, and there is no right-wing language in the design or concept of the site. When I post right-wing material, I do it as a user here, not as the owner.

As I said before, I am absolutely not going to censor any kind of ideology here. That's not up for debate.

The question is whether or not I should put an end to allowing the blantantly bigoted language here. I'm still considering what is the right thing to do. I really don't want to become the speech police, but I also feel that some minimal standards might be in order.

I disagree with your politics but respect your intelligence and willingness to discuss. I think you’re a little obsessed with left wing women, but all things considered, I wish every right winger was like you.

[tigerpiper]

I vote The Carter if you want to use slurs. Everything else open in Flying Stupidity.

[dwai]

Restricting hate language is not going to change the person who chooses to use it.
It will remind them that this is an open public forum and like other places of gathering
it's not acceptable. You don't get away with it in stores for example.

Hate speech is easy. Don't let it be

hate speech is a made up term by fascist liberals

[Sloppy Joe]

[QUOTE=Dan Druff;918971]

druffs brand of right wing cryptofascism openly embraces the denigration of intellectualism under the guise of 'common sense', a phrase which has been perversely twisted to refer to the most exploitable instincts of the working class.

so druff would never say its 'common sense' to drag fauci out of his bed and murder him on facebook live, but druff enthusiastically provides (and participates in) an echo chamber for the sort of bad faith campaigns that decry human rights as 'SJW agendas', for example.

druff is smart enough to not condone the sorts of toxic lunacy that have become the mainstream status quo in street level conservatism, because unlike most proletariat trump conservatives he has a lot to lose.

so this site remains a convenient watering hole for the dumbest people we went to high school with, and banning hate speech isnt going to do anything but give druff ammo to rebuke the occasional dismissive comments from c level poker celebrities recoiling in horror from this sites content.

additionally, "stormfront-lite" plays.

The question is whether or not I should put an end to allowing the blantantly bigoted language here. I'm still considering what is the right thing to do. I really don't want to become the speech police, but I also feel that some minimal standards might be in order.

What has ever been the argument of allowing blatant bigotry? Its always been an embarassment, but there used to be interesting posters and content amid the riff raff.

Making a change now is pointless; this is your legacy to the poker community.

[Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe]

Everyone calling this site stormfront is soft

[Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe]

allow hate speech against rural white people and christians though

[Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe]

I also have more POC's in my cell phone than normal people, sonatine and srsly can't say that

[thesidedish]

I would ban the slurs. We all know what the worst of them are and I trust Druff to use his judgment. Start with N-r, F-g-t and go from there. We know it’s more about optics than anything. People can still degrade others, they just will have to find more creative ways to do so.

When it comes to other types of speech that some deem “hate” and some don’t, that is a rabbit hole that will be endless. That is just a part of the deal and we all know it.

I understand that banning slurs can in of itself be a rabbit hole. I reiterate, I trust Druff to make that determination. I am sure there will be the inevitable threads started nominating words to be banned. What can you do? No perfect solution.

I am also relatively new here. I have surely used slang that can absolutely be deemed homophobic slurs by many, that I have not used in my real life in many years. In context, they are all used to attack a scam artist, but I still see the hypocrisy, even in myself.

Also as a newbie, I await the neg reps and replies of “Shut up Fag”. Again, it’s part of the deal.

Lol what?!?! Ur a fkn faggot dude

[thesidedish]

SrslySirius shills hard for the legit worst ppl in politics, the Lincoln project, btw. Ppl that are REALLY upset we didn't invade Syria after the fake chemical weapons scam. His opinion is 0

[OSA]

I also have more POC's in my cell phone than normal people, sonatine and srsly can't say that

are they your drug dealers?

[splitthis]

SrslySirius shills hard for the legit worst ppl in politics, the Lincoln project, btw. Ppl that are REALLY upset we didn't invade Syria after the fake chemical weapons scam. His opinion is 0

This is all just another attempt by him to destroy Druffs site so he can add to his snake in the grass site with the abominable tine. He is nothing but a schoolboy trouble maker. Teacher always has to watch for his next angle THAT ALWAYS FAILS!