JEW Make the Call: Whole Foods Thanksgiving Edition

[BCR]

No they didn’t plan it or schedule it well. But that does nothing for me when I’m not dealing with the district manager in front of me and it’s my fault I’m late.



I am never leaving without that dinner. I have a handful of low wage employees who have to open some shit. If I can’t make it rain for them and have them throwing in some extra shit, then I have learned nothing in this life. Like if my alternative is trying to have to find carry out thanksgiving dinner for a dozen people on Thanksgiving afternoon I’m going to get those people to give me that shit even if I have to pay a huge idiot tax for being late.

I mean I am just starting with I’m an asshole. I’m late. My fault. What is it going to take for me to get that food? Little Johnny wants you home, but he wants you home 15 minutes later with a new Xbox. I am getting that shit every fucking time

[simpdog]

IMO they should have been there before 1

That being said at 12:45 the store should have been calling him to remind the store closes at 1 and his order was ready.

Definitely think the employees took the meal. Jackpot for likely 2 of them that split it.

[Daly]

1:03 is not late for a $500 order that was pre paid and you know the guys going to be there. Picking up at 1 with a hard close time of 1 is idiotic.

You're fucking with someone's family here.

I would be heated

[Daly]

Guy deserves $500 back, fuck any gift cards.

Should of never been an option to pick up at 1 with a hard closing time Of 1. Good for the manager for trying to get her employees out of there on a Holliday but this is on the company.

Saw he got refunded the $$. Whatever they want to do to make it up to him. If its 0.0 I would expect hard feelings and a lost customer.

Also - i would have never of left on thanksgiving. Call the cops lady - you stealing from me. I paid for the food sort of thing. Id make the cop try and tell me to leave and eventually its going to be easier for her to just bring out the food

[themanwho]

Before Druff comes in with the followup, I'd like to predict that the district manager gave his buddy gift cards or something as a reward for complaining.

[BedWetterBettor]

Why is it always the STORE'S FAULT when YOU are late and arrive in a huff??? I'm with the Store once again, you left late and they were closed. You don't get special treatment!

I can give you SOOOO many stories about Casino Buses screwing me over royally and even one when I recorded them in the WRONG and they STILL wouldn't Budge!!!

It was one of those daily buses to a decent size Casino on the East Coast(not in AC).

This company was fairly new with its route to this casino and were clearly still working the bugs out(traffic, loafers, stragglers, bus bonus hack abusers, etc.)

At this point, I was a regular rider and the driver knew me. The posted departure time on the Casino's Bus Screen was 5:45 PM, this is also listed on the Bus Company's Bus Schedule Pamphlet!

I decided to use the restroom at 5:35 PM before heading to the bus area as the Bathroom on the bus is incredibly small and usually smells bad. It took me EXACTLY 3 minutes to take a piss, wash & dry my hands and walk over to where the Bus was Suppose to be waiting!

I get there and there's NO BUS, No line of people waiting and I walk over to the sign where it says 5:45 departure time and then DEPARTED next to this bus company's name!!! It is now 5:41 PM.

I go to the casino customer service and tell them what happened. They TRY to call the bus company/driver and have them come back, but tell me "Sorry, they are already on the highway and can't turn back!"

So I have to pay $90 for an Uber home and the next morning tell the "Owner" of the company what happened.

She contends the bus left at the specified departure time of 5:35 PM.

I reminded her that the posted time on both the schedule and the board at the Casino was 5:45 PM and it has ALWAYS been 5:45 PM as many times as I've taken the bus!

She retorts "Well that can change if the driver arrives early, they have the discretion to Leave early as well!"

I then said "How are we to know that if it's not Clearly Written or Stated???"

She says "You can ask the driver for the exact departure time!"

I reply "Does the driver own the Bus?"

"No"

"Ok and does the Driver own the Company???"

"No"

"Then why is the Driver making rules at their leisure that cost us Hundreds of dollars in unnecessary expenses?"

"They have the right to leave early if they tell the passengers"

I once again state "I was never told this and any time I ride THIS bus with THIS driver, they leave at 5:45 PM regardless of when they arrive as posted on both the Departure screen and Pamphlet YOUR COMPANY prints!"

She makes a half hearted attempt to apologize, then tells me "You should ALWAYS show up 15 minutes prior to departure time just in case..."

I then get a little miffed and say "In case? In case what? They decide to sneak out early and not do their job? In case they decide to screw up my whole trip so they can get home 5 minutes early? In case they want me to Lose another $100??"

**We go back and forth on this and ultimately she refuses to Refund my Bus ticket or Reimburse my Uber expense**

So I took to social media, but the company was so small at that point the only replies were from her! I also obtained recording of the Same Driver clearly stating the Bus leaves at 5:45 PM and posted it on their FB page and they went "hurr hurr it's on a different day so it doesn't apply to the day of the incident"

Anyways, who do JEW think is right and wrong in this tale of the Bus Bool Sheeit???

[Sloppy Joe]

If a hard cutoff of 1 is unaccetpable to Druff (and possibly others here) how late should Whole Foods have stayed open on a holiday to accommodate the tardy bum?

Would he have felt different about 1:10? 1:15? 1:30?

Incredible how some adults walk through life with such a sense of entitlement.

[Dan Druff]

If a hard cutoff of 1 is unaccetpable to Druff (and possibly others here) how late should Whole Foods have stayed open on a holiday to accommodate the tardy bum?

Would he have felt different about 1:10? 1:15? 1:30?

Incredible how some adults walk through life with such a sense of entitlement.

Solution: Don't schedule a pickup window to end at the moment you close. If you want to close at 1, end it at 12:30. If you want to close at 1:30, end it at 1. That solves the entire problem. The guy getting there at 1:30 for his 12-1pm window has much less of a complaint than the guy getting there at 1:01.

No point to discuss 1:10 or 1:30 if the manager admitted they put everything away and locked the doors by 1pm sharp.

If you were the district manager, would you have agreed this was managed properly? Or would you have congratulated them for costing the store $1000 in sales (note that there were TWO people who came less than 10 minutes after 1pm, both with expensive orders), and for possibly losing customers for life?

Scheduling closure and locking the doors at the moment the pickup window ends for expensive prepaid orders is straight up retardia, and anyone who makes such a decision should be demoted to grabbing carts in the parking lot.

No catering operation in the world works like this, not even in Portland.

[Dan Druff]

Why is it always the STORE'S FAULT when YOU are late and arrive in a huff??? I'm with the Store once again, you left late and they were closed. You don't get special treatment!

I can give you SOOOO many stories about Casino Buses screwing me over royally and even one when I recorded them in the WRONG and they STILL wouldn't Budge!!!

It was one of those daily buses to a decent size Casino on the East Coast(not in AC).

This company was fairly new with its route to this casino and were clearly still working the bugs out(traffic, loafers, stragglers, bus bonus hack abusers, etc.)

At this point, I was a regular rider and the driver knew me. The posted departure time on the Casino's Bus Screen was 5:45 PM, this is also listed on the Bus Company's Bus Schedule Pamphlet!

I decided to use the restroom at 5:35 PM before heading to the bus area as the Bathroom on the bus is incredibly small and usually smells bad. It took me EXACTLY 3 minutes to take a piss, wash & dry my hands and walk over to where the Bus was Suppose to be waiting!

I get there and there's NO BUS, No line of people waiting and I walk over to the sign where it says 5:45 departure time and then DEPARTED next to this bus company's name!!! It is now 5:41 PM.

I go to the casino customer service and tell them what happened. They TRY to call the bus company/driver and have them come back, but tell me "Sorry, they are already on the highway and can't turn back!"

So I have to pay $90 for an Uber home and the next morning tell the "Owner" of the company what happened.

She contends the bus left at the specified departure time of 5:35 PM.

I reminded her that the posted time on both the schedule and the board at the Casino was 5:45 PM and it has ALWAYS been 5:45 PM as many times as I've taken the bus!

She retorts "Well that can change if the driver arrives early, they have the discretion to Leave early as well!"

I then said "How are we to know that if it's not Clearly Written or Stated???"

She says "You can ask the driver for the exact departure time!"

I reply "Does the driver own the Bus?"

"No"

"Ok and does the Driver own the Company???"

"No"

"Then why is the Driver making rules at their leisure that cost us Hundreds of dollars in unnecessary expenses?"

"They have the right to leave early if they tell the passengers"

I once again state "I was never told this and any time I ride THIS bus with THIS driver, they leave at 5:45 PM regardless of when they arrive as posted on both the Departure screen and Pamphlet YOUR COMPANY prints!"

She makes a half hearted attempt to apologize, then tells me "You should ALWAYS show up 15 minutes prior to departure time just in case..."

I then get a little miffed and say "In case? In case what? They decide to sneak out early and not do their job? In case they decide to screw up my whole trip so they can get home 5 minutes early? In case they want me to Lose another $100??"

**We go back and forth on this and ultimately she refuses to Refund my Bus ticket or Reimburse my Uber expense**

So I took to social media, but the company was so small at that point the only replies were from her! I also obtained recording of the Same Driver clearly stating the Bus leaves at 5:45 PM and posted it on their FB page and they went "hurr hurr it's on a different day so it doesn't apply to the day of the incident"

Anyways, who do JEW think is right and wrong in this tale of the Bus Bool Sheeit???

This is a strange post in several ways.

First off, you treated my post as if it were about me, even though I stated several times that this was a 2024 story told to me a year later, which is why I'm relaying it to PFA now.

But to answer your question of, "Why is it always the STORE'S FAULT when YOU are late and arrive in a huff??? I'm with the Store once again, you left late and they were closed. You don't get special treatment!"

This isn't just "arriving late to a store". This was a retail store (not a restaurant) selling a $500 PREPAID Thanksgiving meal, and stupidly scheduling an arbitrary closing time at the moment their last pickup window ends. The consequence here is far worse than showing up to Target at 10:01pm and not getting the tube of toothpaste you wanted to buy. Here an entire family's Thanksgiving is ruined, due to not getting their PREPAID order, despite coming 3 minutes after the pickup window! Even worse, the store refused to bring out the stuff because they had already put it away. Thanksgiving for the family ruined, and the store also lost its $500 sale after making the food, which is a dumb and stubborn managerial decision you'd typically expect from Christopher Mitchell (if he had a J-O-B!)

When you manage a large retail store dipping its toe into the catering business, you don't slam the door shut at your arbitrary closing time and say, "YOU GOT HERE AT 1:01 AND OUR CLOSING TIME IS 1:00! NO TURKEY FOR YOU!! FUCK YOUR $500 PREPAID MEAL!" You do whatever you can to fix and accommodate the situation, including attempt to contact those who seem to be no-showing for their expensive prepaid meals. You especially don't make the idiot decision to ignore the phones because you don't feel like answering them!

I'm surprised that, given your normal intelligent, detail-oriented analysis of things here, you gave such a knee-jerk "YOU'RE LATE, TOUGH LUCK" sort of response to this one.



But you know what surprises me the most? Your bus story. Not because it's a bad story. You were actually in the right, and I'd also have been pissed. I've been on many scheduled buses in my life, and they always wait until their scheduled departure time, unless they are 100% certain nobody else is coming (or unless they're full). This company just doesn't give a shit.

Once again, your story falls into the realm of "Druff's Rule of Customer Service": If your policy is nonstandard, and the average customer would not automatically know it, and you don't clearly disclose it for everyone to see, then your company is in the wrong.

In your case, you rightfully showed up at 5:41 for a 5:45 scheduled bus, and it had already left. When you complained, the manager basically told you, "Tough luck! Our driver can make whatever schedule he wants!" How were you supposed to know that?


So since I agree with your complaint, why am I surprised? Because this Whole Foods story is WORSE than what you dealt with! In your case, you lost a bus ticket, and had to pay for a $90 Uber. Shitty, but it pales in comparison to losing out on a $500 prepaid meal and having no food to serve 12 guests at your house on Thanksgiving!

Additionally, Whole Foods is a large subsidiary of an even larger company. Standards and expectations are higher than shitty little businesses like the bus company which screwed you. If my friend got fucked by "Joe's Catering Company", it would still be a bad story, but not nearly as bad as a large corporate operation doing it. Why? Because some individual business owners are incompetent and ego-driven assholes, and mismanage as a result. There is no structure to prevent this, nor is there any major brand at stake. With large corporate locations, they need to be very careful about their brand and customer satisfaction, especially in the age of viral stories.

So I don't understand... you think the bus company was behaving badly here, but Whole Foods wasn't?

[Orko]

He got a refund, that's all you can ask.

You don't like cooking Thanksgiving dinner, neither do they. Esp other people's dinner.
otoh
You know what, fuck Bezos. Accuse them of antisemitism, lawyer up and go for the big bucks.

[Dan Druff]

No they didn’t plan it or schedule it well. But that does nothing for me when I’m not dealing with the district manager in front of me and it’s my fault I’m late.



I am never leaving without that dinner. I have a handful of low wage employees who have to open some shit. If I can’t make it rain for them and have them throwing in some extra shit, then I have learned nothing in this life. Like if my alternative is trying to have to find carry out thanksgiving dinner for a dozen people on Thanksgiving afternoon I’m going to get those people to give me that shit even if I have to pay a huge idiot tax for being late.

I mean I am just starting with I’m an asshole. I’m late. My fault. What is it going to take for me to get that food? Little Johnny wants you home, but he wants you home 15 minutes later with a new Xbox. I am getting that shit every fucking time

Well we are veering off into a separate discussion here.

The question was never, "Did the customer do everything right?" I even conceded that he was about 10% at fault in the situation.

Sure, he could have whipped out a $100 bill and asked if maybe they could get this done as a policy exception. I don't know if he even carries $100 bills because he's not a gambler, and many non-gamblers don't like carrying much cash, even $100. He didn't mention thinking of trying to pay them a "tip" to do this. Maybe that was the right approach once he was in this tough position (otherwise having no Thanksgiving dinner for 12 people), but that is a whole different discussion.

I'm guessing it wouldn't have worked, as he was dealing directly with the store manager, and she could have gotten in BIG trouble for first refusing to give him the meal, and then accepting $100 to change her mind. That's a horrible look for Whole Foods if the story gets out. It's not the same as slipping a $20 at the Horseshoe front desk to get a better room assigned at checkin.


Anyway, my two questions were: Did Whole Foods have any fault here (you seem to be conceding they did), and if so, what should he have been given after-the-fact (days later, when complaining)? If you agree Whole Foods bungled this to some degree, I don't see how you vote for $0.

[zealanddonk]

A key issue is we are hearing Druff's version of his friend's recollection from a year ago.

Unless the friend texted or emailed someone when he turned up, we only have his word it was "just 3 minutes" and not closer to 8 or 10.

When he realised he was going to be late, he should have called Whole Foods.

[Dan Druff]

Okay, as promised, I will now reveal what the district manager told him. BTW I texted this guy about the thread (he has never been on PFA before) and he is very amused by the discussion here. He never imagined it would turn into this when he told me the story 4 days ago!

I will put it in spoiler tags for now.

DO NOT READ WITHIN THE TAG IF YOU HAVEN'T VOTED YET

 

The story left off with him calling the district manager on the following Monday. Again, recall this story took place in 2024, so it's long complete.

In our text conversation I asked him to tell me what he specifically remembered the district manager saying, so I could post it to PFA. These are from his year-old memories, and not exact words, but he's a reliable guy and I don't think he's making any of this up.

The district manager had already received a report of what occurred that day, not because of my friend, but because of the aforementioned angry Asian woman who was shouting profanities over the situation. The store manager self-reported that incident, as apparently she's required to do. This led to a discussion between the district manager and store manager about the entire fiasco, before my friend even called on the following Monday.

The district manager was quite flabbergasted about the whole thing.

She told my friend, "We mishandled everything. I'm extremely sorry about this. Once you were in the store, they should have gotten you the food. It was sitting right there in that shed, right in a bag. They hadn't given away your meal to the employees. She could have gotten it for you. That's her job, to keep the customers happy, to fix situations like these. We also lost two big sales over this. For her not to simply walk over and get you two the food, and tell you to call Amazon for a refund, that's not the way we operate here."

My friend asked about the supposed locked shed. The district manager responded, "I asked her about that, too. She told me it was locked and put away. I asked her, 'Why does locked matter if you are the one with the key?' Like I said, this wasn't handled in the right way. Our managers are supposed to go above and beyond for the customer. Last Thursday that didn't happen."

My friend then asked about the cutoff time being exactly at closing time. The district manager said, "That wasn't our doing. That was corporate, and we weren't happy about it. Unfortunately I didn't have any control over that. To tell you the truth, there's been a lot of problems this year involving integrating our system with Amazon's. This was one of them. If the decision were up to me, there would be no way I would set our closing time at 1pm when our Thanksgiving pickup window also ends at 1pm. That's bad for our customers, and bad for our employees."

My friend pointed out that he tried to call for 20 minutes and wasn't getting an answer. The district manager replied, "Yes I know about that. I asked [the store manager] why she didn't attempt to call the people who hadn't shown for pickup, to find out if they were coming. She said she didn't think of it. When I asked if the customers called, she said, 'One of them said they did, but I don't know, we were too busy to answer the phones.' That again was a lapse on our part. We should have been the ones calling you, but to sit with these big orders and ignore the phones, that was really frustrating for me to hear."

The district manager indicated that all of this fail was "part corporate not planning this well" and "part on our side not handling the matter properly". She promised that she would be "raising a big issue to corporate" over this, and also that she had "coached the store manager on a lot of things".

He asked what the store policy is regarding getting the food if he walked in after closing.

"The store policy is if you ordered a meal of that size and you see an employee anywhere on property, they need to get it for you. I don't care if you saw the manager about to get into her car and drive away. She's supposed to go back in and get it. That's her job. You coming in a few minutes late and asking for it, that's a no brainer to give it to you. I told her, 'It's Thanksgiving. These people are counting on us.'"

He then asked for some form of compensation over this. The district manager initially offered him $100 in gift cards, stating that Whole Foods "made a lot of mistakes" but that "at the end of the day, unfortunately you did come after our closing time, so that should also be taken into account."

He was perplexed by this statement and asked how he was supposed to know the oddball 1pm closing time.

"Didn't the email say the store hours?", she asked.

He told her that the email did not have any information about the store hours, nor did the ordering system on Amazon.

"I had no idea," she responded. "That's a huge mistake. So it just said come pick up from 12-1 and didn't state the store hours anywhere? Are you sure?"

He said that, yes, he was 100% sure, and offered to forward the email to her, which she accepted, and claimed she would "raise this issue" to corporate.

"I bet the person writing the email didn't even know we were closing at 1pm", she said. "That's the problem. There wasn't good integration this year. Next year, I think it will be better. You know what? I'll bump it to $200. I understand now why you thought we'd still be open when you got here, and I know you did try to call and ask anyway, and nobody answered. Again I'm so sorry and I hope you'll give us another chance. This isn't usually how we operate."

He was told the gift cards couldn't be mailed to him, but he could show up to the Whole Foods to pick them up in person. He did so, and the store manager was there. She was very nice and apologetic (different from her attitude on Thanksgiving), and while it might have been phony, she handed him the $200 in cards and asked him to give them another chance to get it right in 2025. He thanked her, and walked out.

End of story.

CLIFFS:

- District manager 100% agreed with my friend

- District manager gave $200 in gift cards to him

- District manager somewhat blamed it on issues with Amazon integration, but also admitted they fucked up at the local store

- Expectations of the manager included her getting the Thanksgiving orders for the customer if she's still on property, even if the customer is late or if the store is closed

- Store fucked up big time by both failing to call customers not showing up yet, and for ignoring the phones

- Anyone who thinks Whole Foods was right here has no clue how big corporate retail works

And I'll say this part outside of the spoiler tags.

Large corporate brands succeed due to strict sets of standards and expectations. That's why many people gravitate to corporate brands rather than small operations. It is not up to the local employee, local manager, or even district manager to break corporate standards/rules with which they disagree. They also do not have a right to "punish" customers they don't like, nor do they have a right to refuse to do work because they feel the customer is "rude" or "entitled".

The corporation sets rules, expectations, and standards for middle/lower management and employees, and middle/lower management is supposed to follow them.

Period.

Any employees unhappy with that can go work at a mom-and-pop place where they can lock the doors whenever they want, if the owner feels like allowing that.

In this case, not only did Amazon set up the system poorly, but the store manager was lazy and chose not to do her job or alleviate a bad situation, because she had emotionally checked out for the day.

Anyone who has worked in corporate retail management knows the above.

The fact that many of you believe the customer to be mostly in the wrong here, and are calling him "entitled" (despite many clear failures on the store's part) is a prime example of why service has degraded so badly over the years. Many Americans have grown accustomed to service mediocrity, poor customer service, and customer-blaming, even in obvious cases like these where the store is at fault in many ways.

There's no reason to bend over and take it up the ass as a customer because you had a small percentage of fault in the situation (in this case, the guy not leaving enough to be 100% sure he'd be there by 1pm). If the store is mostly at fault, they should make good.

[Dan Druff]

A key issue is we are hearing Druff's version of his friend's recollection from a year ago.

Unless the friend texted or emailed someone when he turned up, we only have his word it was "just 3 minutes" and not closer to 8 or 10.

When he realised he was going to be late, he should have called Whole Foods.

He did call. Reread the story.

[themanwho]

So did he give them another chance in 2025?

[zealanddonk]

A key issue is we are hearing Druff's version of his friend's recollection from a year ago.

Unless the friend texted or emailed someone when he turned up, we only have his word it was "just 3 minutes" and not closer to 8 or 10.

When he realised he was going to be late, he should have called Whole Foods.

He did call. Reread the story.

My bad: I do now see this point "I tried like 10 times between 12:45 and 1pm"

!0 seems overly excessive or obsessive.
He proabbly should have clarified if the phone kept ringing, or if it was giving an engaged signal.

[Dan Druff]

He did call. Reread the story.

My bad: I do now see this point "I tried like 10 times between 12:45 and 1pm"

!0 seems overly excessive or obsessive.
He proabbly should have clarified if the phone kept ringing, or if it was giving an engaged signal.

Maybe 10 was an exaggeration. I doubt he fully remembers. He was relaying to me the panic of the "what if I get there slightly late and they won't let me have it" concern coming over him, while sitting in traffic. He had no idea they were closing, though, and in fact that part wasn't even on his mind.

[Dan Druff]

So did he give them another chance in 2025?

He ended up going with the "replacement" place he ordered from, because he liked the food and appreciated their ability to take and prepare a last-minute order so quickly.

[VaughnP]

For anyone siding with Whole Foods - let's say the same pickup times were available and he instead had selected 11am - 12pm and showed up at 12:03pm and was denied his food. Would that have been reasonable? Obviously not, and it's so stupid for a place to offer a high priced service like this and close immediately following the end of the last pickup window that no one would ever assume that was the case.

For the manager to deny him in this spot is both idiotic and selfish. It's something if I were the district manager I wouldn't forget. Look at how far that type of poor customer service has reached. I've done the Thanksgiving to go thing more than once, and I will remember this for future reference. Shitty employees make their jobs about themselves, and while it's expected for cashiers, stockers etc. a manager of a grocery store acting in this manner is unacceptable. Would you potentially ruin a family's Thanksgiving over going to unlock a shed?